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Paul Schrader is on the press tour circuit to promote Oh, Canada, which means there are plenty of great tidbits from a man known for being no-holds-barred. (Just look at his Facebook.) Today’s stop was at Vulture, where the director gave a wide-ranging interview, touching on the actor collaborations he’s had throughout his career. In particular, Schrader talks about Richard Gere, who he helped put on the map with American Gigolo in 1980 and who he’s reunited with in Oh, Canada. 

When journalist Blige Ebiri asks about the difficulty older actors such as Robert De Niro had finding good parts and settling for roles in “trashy movies,” Schrader interjected to lay the blame at CAA co-founder Michael Ovitz’s feet. The full quote:

"Also you had to deal with the devil. The devil was named Mike Ovitz. Mike had a scheme. He would find something that an actor or a client liked. Marty was good at preservations. And somebody else was paintings. With Bobby, it was real estate. Ovitz would encourage them, give them hints, give them very good suggestions, and they would go for it but then they needed money. What do you do when you need money? You work for it. “Oh my God, I just got the film for you. It’s not a great film, but it’s a great paycheck.” That’s how Mike would trap these guys into doing it. He tried to sign me, but I didn’t go for it."

Schrader goes on to say that he doesn’t think Ovitz would have been able to find his “point of weakness” and that he had rebuffed the agent’s invitations to sit with him at a Lakers game. De Niro did briefly leave CAA for rival agency WME in 2008, but returned to CAA in 2010, according to Deadline. You can check out Vulture's full interview here.